TAA / Commercial Certificate
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Hello,

I'm a 30 yr CFII (Gold Seal), but flying commercially for the last 24 years, and my instruction recency has been just enough to stay in it, along with my renewals.  My 19 yr old is taking lessons from me for his Private (and follow on Inst and Commercial) in our RV-6A.  I plan to do an initial 20 or so hours with him in our plane for each rating and once he has this and his written done, kick him over to the local flight school to finish up as I feel they are in a better position to “polish” him up with everything he needs to be successful.  That all said, my question relates to TAA's.

Simply would our RV-6A qualify as a TAA?  We have dual Garmin G-5s, IFR Garmin 430 with Moving map, Kanardia EFIS, Stormscope, Dual A-20s, Garmin 507 3 axis autopilot (will fly coupled ILS to minimums and includes altitude hold and flight director), CGR-30P Engine Monitor.  Basically with our updates its all glass instruments.  Some readings on it seem to say yes, some seem to say no.  

Thoughts? 

Kurt

Bozeman, MT 

6 Replies
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1516 Posts

@Kurt Klewin

The G5 doesn't qualify as a PFD because the pitot-static side isn't approved as primary for IFR –- that's why you have to have backup altimeter and airspeed instruments and a turn coordinator with a G5 primary.  If all you have for  electronic primary flight display is a G5, it's not a TAA.  By comparison, the GI275 is so qualified.

OTOH, if your Kanardia (you didn't say which model) has all the capabilities listed in 61.129(j), that could (in company with the 430 as an MFD and the 2-axis autopilot) make your plane a TAA.

That said, you should discuss your plans with that flight school before you commit to this course of action.  Many flight schools will not give training in planes not under their control, and even more will not give training in E-AB aircraft (It's all about insurance).

Votes

@Ronald Levy
 

Thanks Ron.  My Kanardia is the Horis (Full PFD), link below, and it is my primary airspeed and altimeter.  My G5s and Horis are IFR checked, along w transponder, every 2 years.  Horis – Kanardia

I don't plan to have the school instruct in our RV, but rather fly with him for a period of time and have him get instruction in their 172 and take checkride in 172.  

Votes

I'm glad this conversation has come up.  We periodically get the same question.  Without any interpretation of the regulation that I'm aware of we just have to point them to 14 CFR 61.129(j) and let them know if it meets those requirements it should qualify as a TAA.  

Technically advanced airplane. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, a technically advanced airplane must be equipped with an electronically advanced avionics system that includes the following installed components:

(1) An electronic Primary Flight Display (PFD) that includes, at a minimum, an airspeed indicator, turn coordinator, attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed indicator;

(2) An electronic Multifunction Display (MFD) that includes, at a minimum, a moving map using Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation with the aircraft position displayed;

(3) A two axis autopilot integrated with the navigation and heading guidance system; and

(4) The display elements described in paragraphs (j)(1) and (2) of this section must be continuously visible.

I've seen PFD defined in AC 23.1311-1C and I don't see any reference to it needing to be approved as a primary instrument for IFR.  I'm curious as to where you've seen that.  The regulation doesn't mention it nor does the definition in the advisory circular.  Am I missing something?

Installation of Electronic Display in Part 23 Airplanes

Primary Flight Display (PFD): A single physical unit that always provides the primary display of all the following: altitude, airspeed, aircraft heading (direction) and attitude located directly in front of the pilot in a fixed layout in accordance with § 23.1321. It may provide other information pertinent to guidance and fundamental control of flight of the airplane, such as critical engine parameters. 
 

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1516 Posts

@Island Boy At AOPA
 

I've seen PFD defined in AC 23.1311-1C and I don't see any reference to it needing to be approved as a primary instrument for IFR.  I'm curious as to where you've seen that.  The regulation doesn't mention it nor does the definition in the advisory circular.  Am I missing something?

All I know is that the FAA does NOT recognize the G5 as a PFD for this purpose.  BTDT with them and Garmin.  That's one of the reasons I recommend folks contemplating going this route spend the extra bucks for a pair of GI275's instead of G5's if they have any thoughts at all about using that aircraft as a TAA for Commercial-ASEL purposes.

But the Kanardia Horis unit should do for this purpose, so they should be able to do the TAA requirement for C-ASEL with that as their PFD.

Horis – Kanardia

 

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1516 Posts

@Kurt Klewin
 

I don't plan to have the school instruct in our RV, but rather fly with him for a period of time and have him get instruction in their 172 and take checkride in 172.  

Sounds like a good plan for PP and IR.  Will you then do the TAA portion of the commercial (10 hours of training, which you can give him if your CFI is current) with him in the RV and let him do the rest in the school 172?

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@Ronald Levy@Ronald Levy
Thats the plan.  Let him time build in the RV, do his TAA time, and cross countries.  I plan to do as much as I can with him in the RV (night flying, cross countries, hood time, TAA flying) so when he goes to the flight school many of the boxes are checked. (and he will have his students lic , medical, and written done).  Should then just have to learn the maneuvers in the 172 and polish things up a bit.